Angry Drunk Ranting
This was going to be a portion at least of a "White Wolf" post but then I decided I was too intoxicated for the general (at least attempted) intellectual atmosphere of such. Perhaps I will touch on this later, but it came to mind now, and lest losing it, I simply throw it out there as one of the problems I had with the background of my Christian upbringing.
Namely? The promises. Open your heart to Jesus and he will was away the guilt, the pain, and the sins. Now I know you may jump up and say that isn't the truth of it, but that is the advantage of my alcohol induced superficiality. Bottom line, whether this statement is true or not, preachers and evangelical individuals DO promise this. Fact: It is bullshit.
Nobody wipes this away for you. You are human. Deal with it. Absorb it. Use it or find a way around it, but no matter how much the fact sucks, you are stuck with it. Why did She speak to me instead of Him? Because she promises reality. He sends armies of bullshit artists trying to make a quota. She speaks for herself. She doesn't send "Diana's Witnesses", or members of "Brighid, Isis and the Latter Day Pagans" knocking on our doors or shoving tracts in our faces offering promises of a better day tomorrow if you just sign on the dotted line.
She expects you to live, not play a little training round in wait for the real thing. Newsflash: Look at any training scenario. No matter how much it prepares you, the real thing sucks worse. If you are training now for the afterlife, I think you should pray you have plenty of time to prepare before you face that shit.
I can't play that game. Your history is indelible. No matter how many people can be made to forget, it happened. She asks you to improve and evolve. He seems to ask you to deny and erase. "I'm sorry" you tell Him, and to prove it you say ten hail mary's and give a Franklin in the next offering. All good. "I'm sorry" you tell Her, and She says, "Prove it to me."
I have had my failings. I am not going to shout a name out. I am going to prove it. Nobody is going to wash my past away. Nobody is holding the gate open to a furnace for me if I forget to genuflect either.
I do not fear the end. Why? Because once I feared hell. Then I looked into the eyes of something more frightening than any version of hell I was ever taught. I blinked. Those eyes softened, and She smiled.
That is when I knew the path of my life, or something close to it.
Namely? The promises. Open your heart to Jesus and he will was away the guilt, the pain, and the sins. Now I know you may jump up and say that isn't the truth of it, but that is the advantage of my alcohol induced superficiality. Bottom line, whether this statement is true or not, preachers and evangelical individuals DO promise this. Fact: It is bullshit.
Nobody wipes this away for you. You are human. Deal with it. Absorb it. Use it or find a way around it, but no matter how much the fact sucks, you are stuck with it. Why did She speak to me instead of Him? Because she promises reality. He sends armies of bullshit artists trying to make a quota. She speaks for herself. She doesn't send "Diana's Witnesses", or members of "Brighid, Isis and the Latter Day Pagans" knocking on our doors or shoving tracts in our faces offering promises of a better day tomorrow if you just sign on the dotted line.
She expects you to live, not play a little training round in wait for the real thing. Newsflash: Look at any training scenario. No matter how much it prepares you, the real thing sucks worse. If you are training now for the afterlife, I think you should pray you have plenty of time to prepare before you face that shit.
I can't play that game. Your history is indelible. No matter how many people can be made to forget, it happened. She asks you to improve and evolve. He seems to ask you to deny and erase. "I'm sorry" you tell Him, and to prove it you say ten hail mary's and give a Franklin in the next offering. All good. "I'm sorry" you tell Her, and She says, "Prove it to me."
I have had my failings. I am not going to shout a name out. I am going to prove it. Nobody is going to wash my past away. Nobody is holding the gate open to a furnace for me if I forget to genuflect either.
I do not fear the end. Why? Because once I feared hell. Then I looked into the eyes of something more frightening than any version of hell I was ever taught. I blinked. Those eyes softened, and She smiled.
That is when I knew the path of my life, or something close to it.
posted by Wanderer at 2:00 AM
23 Comments:
since this was a rant, do you want comments?
Respect.
LYB
Seraphim
Give us comments, we enjoy defeating them
Feel free to comment. If I didn't want comments I would either remove the post, indicate so in the comment box, or just turn the comments off. It is rare that I don't see the potential advantage of the input of others, regardless of what may have initially inspired the input.
Thanks, mc, that helps put it all in perspective.
Amgry Drunk Ranting indeed,
ever wonder why they call "spirits" spirits?
I must say, though, that reading this while I am much more sober, I don't really disagree with much of anything I said. Only the hostility with which it was presented.
Don't regret hostility. Emotional energy is not a parent category under which you find things like hostility and compassion, it is a multi-faceted shape which has all those sides at the same time.
If you injected a little bit more emotion and energy into everything you wrote I think you'd find it puts wind in your sails all by itself. I know of more than a few times I set out to write one or two paragraphs for an article on your blog and got so emotionally energetic about it that it turned into several pages.
The only thing you need to watch out for is to make sure your hostility and energy propel you only to places you meant to go. There are plenty of cliffs ad hazards along the path of your ideas, like rough and water along a fairway. Sometimes when I get more angry than hostile and more frenzied than energetic, I say things that later I don't mean, just because that edge, that emotional rocket engine, pushed me too far in one direction.
Use the anger wisely. Let rage push you to where you meant to go. Let it carry you past the level you're at right now and into a whole new category of writer. Maybe with a bit more energy you'd generate a bit more of a reaction and dialogue.
Kool. I was trying to be like MC and show respect...
psych. About the like MC part anyway.
When I read your post, I thought about if and prayed over it. (not that I'm more or less special than anyone else).
Here's what I got. Don't be surprized if one day you are looking into Her eyes and turn back and it's Him.
LYB
Seraphim
And exactly what the fuck prompted that?
hmm. maybe this?
Give us comments, we enjoy defeating them
but honestly I didn't mean it in a bad or mean way...
Hope that God blesses your poker games.
Seraphim
In what way is it disrespectful to allow you to do what you asked permission to do?
Love 4 the word - I must concur with mc, I see no disrespect from what mc said. Quite the contrary, his comment was highly respectful in pointing out his precise position. PC crap is often disrespectful in that it creates false impressions. MC stood up and said, feel free to comment, and expect potential opposition. This I think is highly respectful. It doesn't bullshit you into thinking you have a safe path where there isn't one. Aren't danger signs more respectful than signs that say "run blindfolded" found in the proximity of cliffs?
As for your comment that I might look back and find Him where I saw Her, I must admit this is a little to amorphous for me. If there is a correlating point, I would be overjoyed to hear it. Still, a comment that what I thought was Her might turn out to be Him is a little too reversible. Without substantiation, could I not say the same to you in reverse?
I suppose in the ladder story I did just that, but in respect to that I made clear my position, not simply making a "try switching the identity of the deity" comment.
I am sure this wasn't meant to be insulting, and I want to make sure that you realize that my response isn't meant in that vein either. Still, this situation brings up a point that has simmered in the back of my mind that has just come to the surface.
I have been accused (perhaps the wrong word, as I take pride in it at times) of reaffirming the faith of christians by nature of my opposing questions. Given my actions in that regard, I would ask one of the following of those people in particular at least, and the greater population that this would apply to as a whole.
One option: Pose your positions in earnest to me as I have to you so that I might grow in my faith and position by the same opposition.
Second option: Pose your positions in earnest to me as I have to you so that I might see the correctness of your position.
At its core, I say this: MC has been amongst the most respectful of me as he stands up and challenges me. Lisanocerous ranks up there as she understands and tends to be supportive therein. I am not sure who rates higher in this. I suspect it is a tie, but Lisanocerous is cuter so I give her the bonus points.
The rest of you have some defense at not knowing me as well as these two, still I present this: I don't accidentally stumble into your religious conversations or my own. I pour my own personal feelings and understandings into each. As such, show me the same respect. Tell me why I would see Him. Relate it to what I said. Or find a more appropriate point to make the perception.
Quoting the bible at me is more respectful than telling me that I might have my deities mixed up, especially in a scenario where I make a distinction that is ignored in your response.
All of that being said, if you are still reading this, I beg of you to respond from your heart. Any of you, not just Seraphim. While many negatives could be said for the intoxicated state in which it was written, this much is clear: More than just about any other writing out here, this one leapt from my scarred and potentially vulnerable core. I ask of you to show me the respect I have shown you in person or on your sites to attack now. If I fail because it is indefensible, you have done me a favor. If I can defend my position you have done me a favor.
I have given so much to the world through various philanthropies and charitable donations of my money, my heart and my soul. This is where you pay it back. Respond for real. This is probably one of the ones that matters more than anything else I have posted so far. This is the most raw and the most real. Give me what you have got. Show me that I have offered something to you that had earned that much.
Do you mean about the forgiveness thing?
I'd love to, but I can't cause you're mostly right. The only thing you have wrong is that forgiveness or lack thereof implies a debt to the forgiver. One of my great personal prides is that I am never indebted to anyone, financially or in any other sense, except my parents to whom my debt can never be repaid.
I don't owe the rest of you anything. I don't owe anyone any money, and I don't owe anyone particular behavior. If anything, everyone else owes me, and big time. I have done and lent such ridiculous amounts of shit for and to others that at this point I think no matter what I do, people would have to have some serious chutzpah to find themselves in a position to judge and condemn or forgive it.
The same holds true for deities. Not only is it pretty arrogant to think your god cares what you do as that would imply some leverage over your deity but more corely, why do you owe it to this jerk to behave certain ways? Did he give you something he didn't give the other six billion people alive today of which a majority aren't part of your cult? He doesn't own you. Your name is Kunta, not Toby, and don't forget that.
As for the concept of an afterlife, if that's going to be your etort, fuck that shit. What if your friend called you and said "Dude, come to my party, but you have to prostrate yourself and pay homage to me before I'll let you come in"? I'd tell him to go fuck himself right in the ass, and then I'd probably go throw a brick at his window.
Or more accurately, he calls up to invite you but you have to do everything he says beforehand and during. Nobody likes the bossy kid.
Like I said, I didn't mean to be mean. Words without knowing the persons behind them can come across different to different people. You saw his words as meaning this:
"stood up and said, feel free to comment, and expect potential opposition."
I just saw them as a swipe at my desire to comment. Again I meant no harm.
mea culpa to mc and yourself.
I don't offer my words here as a debate or an arguement, to be defeated or defended. Conversation yes.
secondly, when I said you may look into Her eyes and one day see His there, I wasn't talking about 'switch and bait' of deities. Rather this. Fr. Seraphim Rose quoted some worthy when he said "The Truth is so far above us, that to put it in words is to lie -- no matter what our intentions"
I think that most of us get it 'mostly right'. And I've often wondered if the God who created us "male and female he created them, in their image" isn't the basis for the god and the goddess.
--not to sound like a universalist, or even as an authority on spiritual matters or religion, but I think Deity meets us where we are. God is both our Mother & our Father.
And while I love Jesus and the Bible, I'm ashamed that most Christian's with the 'right beliefs' are so bigoted cruel and hateful -- and have wondered if in the parable about the first and last if it's not the pagans and gays and others who are first and welcome at the banquet because of their love and compassion while the Christians who have no love are in outer darkness already - the last.
And strangely enough, often you have affirmed my faith not by being an 'opposite to it' but in your council to me which has been spot on.
Hell -- there is so much to comment on with that. Eastern Orthodox writers talk about the River of Fire (which can be googled river of fire orthodox) being so much different than a Western concept of Hell.
And while I believe such a place exists, I don't believe in the place (if you know what i mean - I don't affirm it..)
I don't believe in a deity that sends anyone there -- but in one who tries to lead us all home -- but respects those who refuse to go.
Wanderer you have been a friend, mc I don't know you but I know you are a friend to Wanderer, forgive my words and ramblings.
God's Peace
Seraphim
Quoting the bible at me is more respectful than telling me that I might have my deities mixed up,
Again, my implication wasn't that you got your deities mixed up.
forgive me a sinner
LYB
Seraphim
Wanderer, you asked for honest comments. here's a start.
You wrote: "He seems to ask you to deny and erase. "I'm sorry" you tell Him, and to prove it you say ten hail mary's and give a Franklin in the next offering.
Mainly I was disappointed and saddened that you'd been offered such mistruth. If that's what you were taught, you deserve to be angry.
Here's what I believe. Christ never tells us to deny and erase. There's a difference between the actual guilt of having committed an offense and the guilt that's an emotional response. Forgiveness of sins is wiping away the charge of "guilty" like a legal acquittal for a crime. Becoming free from emotional guilt isn't immediate- nor should it be. (It might never happen.) Neither does the pain of being human get wiped away. Jesus himself lived every day with the pain of estragement from his family and most of society, being called all sorts of awful things, and people trying to kill him from the time he was a young child.
Yes, some people teach the lie that everything gets whitewashed with Jesus. Jesus had a thing or 2 to say about whitewashing. But- not all Christians promise this. Stereotypes of every kind are unfair and hurtful- don't you agree?
I prayed through this Sunday on my way to Church, and during the service. I'll still working on it.
I feel a story coming on...
That was how I wrote my response in my prayer/journal. Maybe I'll post it on my site, get away from the same ol'same ol' that's going on there. Today, again as I was driving, I had a sort of "talk" with you. And asked myself a question. What would i be giving up if I said "yes" to her? What would you be giving up if you said "yes" to him? Is there really a Him or a Her? Are there both?
I came up with my answer as I was driving through a New Mexican Dust Storm. I'll write more when I can focus more. I'm still here.
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Cindy, that statement lumps all stereotypes into one category. Not all stereotypes are the same, and they must be judged individually on a case-by-case basis. Sometimes stereotypes are well-deserved, and some stereotypes are even positive - like Asians stereotyped as being geniuses. Other stereotypes are unfair, like atheists as evildoers. But you can't just judge all stereotypes by the characteristics of a few.
MC, you're right. I did lump stereotypes into one category. I should have written that that particular stereotype (that preachers and evangelicals promise a wholesale whitewashing of one's life following a committment to Jesus)seems unfair to me. I don't think I'm an evangelical by all standards, but I do work in a church and the statement doesn't describe my beliefs or my approach to others.
I'm going to think more about what you said, though. It's a good observation.
I am considering much of what you have all said thus far, and may or may not respond to some of it shortly. I guess the delay will only follow the matter of course that has already been set, since in my comments yesterday, I failed to address one of the most important ones that had already been placed.
MC - Your comment beginning: "Don't regret hostility. Emotional energy is not a parent category under which you find things like hostility and compassion, it is a multi-faceted shape which has all those sides at the same time." was not missed by me. Quite the opposite. I have been giving serious consideration to this and have nothing as of yet to offer in response, other than the fact that (unsurprisingly) I am inclined to say you have hit the nail on the head once more.
I would say that in yet another way I am further indebted to you again for what you presented here. Thus reinforcing my immortality. ;)
Thank you.
Cindy - don't think too long about it. In truth, my previous comment was mostly just a joke about stereotyping stereotypes ;)
MC, HA! The one time I thought I knew what you were talking about, you were joking. Such is my life...
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