The White Wolf's Questions Begin
There has been a delay in addressing this subject based on several points. I have been trying to come up with a cohesive order, both to address the chronology of my journey, and assist in properly following it from an outsider's perspective. This is difficult to do, since the mind doesn't focus on individual questions at a time. In fact, one of the issues that led to me searching elsewhere is based on the complexities and interconnectedness of a multitude of questions spawning from what one would think should be simple.
If it seems at times that I am approaching this thing from the middle or putting the cart before the horse, it is because I am trying to untie this Gordian knot. Feel free to ask for clarification. At points the comment sections will probably be more illuminating than the posts.
I expect that some of you will attempt to address how the church could address these questions, in fact I have specifically invited some of you to do so, but I will make two assertions on this point. First, don't quote the bible at me and expect the verse to stand alone. If you quote a verse, accompany it with your own assertion or explanation. Second, expect me to question you. I don't expect you to have all of the answers, but I also don't expect you to take offense to me questioning what you say.
To begin with the questions. I will start with one of the simple and common questions. Did God create evil? Now this is addressed in several different ways, all variant explanations accompanying the answer no.
Many will state that God created the world without evil, but that Satan corrupted it. Others state specifically that evil was brought about by the fall of man. I've received many such responses, but all of them pretty much point to the same thing. It wasn't God's fault. It just happened, or was introduced from elsewhere. There are several problems with this theory.
The primary question that influences how to address this issue happens to be one of my favorites. It has also spurred some of the most heated debates on every other blog I have seen address it. Now it is my turn. You ready? Is God omniscient, and does this mean he knows every thought, action and decision that every man will ever make?
I have addressed my opinions on this subject here. I will get back to it again in the context of this series. Right now, however, I will merely address how it applies to the question of the origin of evil.
On one hand, evil came into being as an unforeseen consequence of God's creation. On the other hand, it was a foreseen part of God's plan. If you accept the first answer, you are done with the question of where evil came from. Now you must simply wrestle with the implications of the possibility of something happening that God didn't originally plan for, and address why evil was allowed to continue to be. If you believe the second option, that evil was a part of the design, again one is led to ask why.
Now we seem to get to sticky territory. A loving God allows evil to exist. Simplest solution? Blame man. It's that darn free will. God allows us to make our own decisions. Even those that make bad things happen to good people. Sounds good. Now all we have to do is explain why free will? Not really touching that one just yet. It will take up more space on its own that the rest of this post, and I would like to lay down some more background before I tackle it.
Still, we should address the base questions. Did God expect evil? Whether expected or not, why does God let it happen? Leaving it on a question I am not ready to delve into just seems a little inappropriate.
This is where we run the risk of appearing disjointed, but I figure that part of the purpose of this series is to illustrate what answers I have arrived ad. I am not yet detailing my theological foundations, but this doesn't me you should presume my conclusions have no basis. (Perhaps not one you would agree with, but it is generally there.) Feel free to ask.
Did God create evil? Not precisely. The Goddess created a world within which was man. Man is unique in his ability to rationalize, dream, create and impact upon his environment. Part of his unique makeup involves the capability to do that which is seen as evil. The thing to bear in mind, though, is that nobody sets out to do evil. They all justify their actions. They all think it is right, it is necessary, or that they have no choice. There is no Dr. Evil out there in search of a world full of evil petting zoos.
So then the question becomes, why would she create a world full of individuals who are unique and variable enough that they were capable of disagreement? Even violent disagreement. We approach the free will discussion again.
Did she know that these possibilities existed? Perhaps not in detail, but yes. Why then allow it to be so? Because that which allows us to do these things to each other is also what is necessary for us to fill the role we serve. Why doesn't she intervene more to protect the innocent? The answer to this is addressed here.
And your thoughts are?
If it seems at times that I am approaching this thing from the middle or putting the cart before the horse, it is because I am trying to untie this Gordian knot. Feel free to ask for clarification. At points the comment sections will probably be more illuminating than the posts.
I expect that some of you will attempt to address how the church could address these questions, in fact I have specifically invited some of you to do so, but I will make two assertions on this point. First, don't quote the bible at me and expect the verse to stand alone. If you quote a verse, accompany it with your own assertion or explanation. Second, expect me to question you. I don't expect you to have all of the answers, but I also don't expect you to take offense to me questioning what you say.
To begin with the questions. I will start with one of the simple and common questions. Did God create evil? Now this is addressed in several different ways, all variant explanations accompanying the answer no.
Many will state that God created the world without evil, but that Satan corrupted it. Others state specifically that evil was brought about by the fall of man. I've received many such responses, but all of them pretty much point to the same thing. It wasn't God's fault. It just happened, or was introduced from elsewhere. There are several problems with this theory.
The primary question that influences how to address this issue happens to be one of my favorites. It has also spurred some of the most heated debates on every other blog I have seen address it. Now it is my turn. You ready? Is God omniscient, and does this mean he knows every thought, action and decision that every man will ever make?
I have addressed my opinions on this subject here. I will get back to it again in the context of this series. Right now, however, I will merely address how it applies to the question of the origin of evil.
On one hand, evil came into being as an unforeseen consequence of God's creation. On the other hand, it was a foreseen part of God's plan. If you accept the first answer, you are done with the question of where evil came from. Now you must simply wrestle with the implications of the possibility of something happening that God didn't originally plan for, and address why evil was allowed to continue to be. If you believe the second option, that evil was a part of the design, again one is led to ask why.
Now we seem to get to sticky territory. A loving God allows evil to exist. Simplest solution? Blame man. It's that darn free will. God allows us to make our own decisions. Even those that make bad things happen to good people. Sounds good. Now all we have to do is explain why free will? Not really touching that one just yet. It will take up more space on its own that the rest of this post, and I would like to lay down some more background before I tackle it.
Still, we should address the base questions. Did God expect evil? Whether expected or not, why does God let it happen? Leaving it on a question I am not ready to delve into just seems a little inappropriate.
This is where we run the risk of appearing disjointed, but I figure that part of the purpose of this series is to illustrate what answers I have arrived ad. I am not yet detailing my theological foundations, but this doesn't me you should presume my conclusions have no basis. (Perhaps not one you would agree with, but it is generally there.) Feel free to ask.
Did God create evil? Not precisely. The Goddess created a world within which was man. Man is unique in his ability to rationalize, dream, create and impact upon his environment. Part of his unique makeup involves the capability to do that which is seen as evil. The thing to bear in mind, though, is that nobody sets out to do evil. They all justify their actions. They all think it is right, it is necessary, or that they have no choice. There is no Dr. Evil out there in search of a world full of evil petting zoos.
So then the question becomes, why would she create a world full of individuals who are unique and variable enough that they were capable of disagreement? Even violent disagreement. We approach the free will discussion again.
Did she know that these possibilities existed? Perhaps not in detail, but yes. Why then allow it to be so? Because that which allows us to do these things to each other is also what is necessary for us to fill the role we serve. Why doesn't she intervene more to protect the innocent? The answer to this is addressed here.
And your thoughts are?
posted by Wanderer at 10:57 AM
5 Comments:
Consider a time before man/woman.
Consider a bright white light and a prisim. The light shines through the prisim and creates the beautiful colors of the rainbow. And the prisim thinks, "Look at the beauty I create...color is so much more beautiful than plain white light, it is easier to look at, I am better than the light. I am the most beautiful thing there is. I deserve to be worshiped.
The Light - The almighty "I AM"
The prisim - Lucifer, the most beautiful thing that had been created up to that point...
thus is born arogance, pride, and yes, evil.
And in the beginning, When God created the heavens and the earth as they exist now...the first words He spoke were "Let there be light!"
And once this earth had been created, in all perfection and beauty, God decided to create Man, in His image, male and female he created them. He didn't just speak them into exisitance. He molded them and breathed life - a kiss of life into them. And they were good. And it was His will that they should love Him, really love him, so He had to give them the choice to love Him. And He knew, that in giving them free choice, a free will, that there was the potential that they would choose otherwise. He knew what had happened with Lucifer. Maybe these two wouldn't turn away from Him, but the multitude of offspring that He planned for. Surely, some of them would make wise choices, but not all. So He made a plan for redemption. I think there are somethings you will come to understand about God better now that you are on the journey of a father. I think that is was/is Important that God chose to reveal Himself as Father. Are shots evil?
The shots that we allow Doctors to give our babies? Some people think they do more harm than good, but think of the concept. Shots can prevent disease. Shots can heal infections. Shots hurt little legs and butts, but still, a loving parent allows shots to happen. Can you explain to little emily why you would allow a doctor to hurt her? So sometimes, what appears to be evil to our limited minds are like shots for our own good. And we might cry Why? and God the perfect Father says...maybe someday i can explain it to you, but by the time you are old enough to understand, the pain will have faded. Is it God's fault that some people in the world make some pretty evil choices for which many other people suffer? We could say, if he knows they are going to be so bad, why does he let them be born. I woke up with that very thought in my mind. If God planned this from the very beginning, this mess of a world, where children die violently and wars rage..then it wasn't a very good or loving plan. But if God put into each soul, a spark of eternity, a longing for the light, and a potential for good, to go along with that free will...if he knew what each person could be, and if he interacts with them continually to help them choose wisely, always ready to pick them up and dust them off if they fall...then we can't blame Him when someone chooses selfishness and acts out of greed rather than love.
Is this comment too long.
I have two more things to say and I'll make them quick, or at least I'll try:
The other day, in a great wave of self pity and distress, I said to myself, maybe those Catholics and Pagans have something...I don't think any man, even a perfect father, could understand what I am going through, and I wish I had a "divine mother" to turn to.
Also, your thing on Prayer, which was beautifully written, has one little flaw...I don't think it is always true that if God says yes to my pleas he/she has to say no to someone else. I had a warlock say something to that eeffect to me once...concerning the matter of personal power. He said that he recogonized great power in me, and that in order for me to realize that potential I had to stop worrying about other people. I should/could get for myself what ever I wanted, if only I would admit that what I wanted was more important than what might happen to other people if I got it. I could not accept that, and it actually got me back into searching for enlightenment which led be back to Jesus, the Way,Truth and Light. Love to all in Rochester...I wish I was there.
"Also, your thing on Prayer, which was beautifully written, has one little flaw...I don't think it is always true that if God says yes to my pleas he/she has to say no to someone else. I had a warlock say something to that eeffect to me once...concerning the matter of personal power. He said that he recogonized great power in me, and that in order for me to realize that potential I had to stop worrying about other people. I should/could get for myself what ever I wanted, if only I would admit that what I wanted was more important than what might happen to other people if I got it."
I apologize, MaryEllen, but I must point out that the connection you draw here is wrong. In point of fact, you are making the same error your Warlock made, by associating what was said in my post with what he told you.
The whole point was that you should realize that what you need will frequently cost someone else, even if you don't know that someone. When you don't get what you ask for, consider that the Goddess is wiser than you are, and you are loved no less, but probably no more than that other person. This isn't a lesson in rejecting personal responsibility, nor is it a lesson in selfishness. Quite the opposite. It is a request to keep the bigger picture in mind, which quite possibly has fallen on deaf ears.
Good comments on free will. I will get to that topic, I promise. (In fact at some point in the next couple of hours, I will have Her speaking on that very topic.)
Chip -
"Perhaps the reason God allows evil is the same reason MLB allows the Red Sox, Cubs, Astros and the WWE to coexist. But then, there are people how hate the Braves so it all becomes rather confusing."
I wasn't aware that the MLB had any say in the WWE.
Ok, I do see the error in my ways, and I miss stated, or misrepresented your thoughts on the matter. still i contend, getting what I want does not always, or even often enfringe on the desires of someone else. I am not asking Abba to be nice to me, even if it means he has to be mean to someone else...
and i do understand that should God say NO or Wait to my petitions, He is wise and knows best...like my son once said, "Mom, you are asking for cookies and God is busy making dinner." Still sometimes it seems that he says no too often...but that is not the question at hand, the question of evil. Yet, I believe most of the evil in this world is caused by the Free Will of greedy human beings.
I appreciate Chips comments, especially since I am the mother of a felon who has repented and been redeemed, but still suffering the earthly consequences of his sin/crime
I beleive God created beings, angelic and human, with the capacity for evil. It was His choice, and he knew what would come of it. Why do it? At the risk of being ridiculed as small minded (maybe I am) I have to say I fully expect that the God who created the universe is capable of thoughts bigger than I. (See- I am relatively small minded.) Furthermore, that I can't put Him in a theological box gives me comfort rather than distress. If I could understand all of his ways, then he isn't so big is he? Not that I don't try- I do. And the more I try, the more I learn- I think. But I won't reject him because I can't objectify Him. Because I'm bigger than that.
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