Friday, March 31, 2006

The White Wolf Considers The Feminine

Obviously, having noted that my spiritual journey had neglected the feminine, I had to stop and think about what this meant. If it meant anything at all. The first thoughts being whether there was a relevance to this concept. Would God have a gender? Would it serve a purpose?

What made the genders different? Particularly beyond aesthetics and reproductive functions that would be irrelevant to a being possessive of the power that has been attributed to God.

After all, men and women are equal, right? Of course not. You pick two men and any one subject and one of them will prove superior. The same is true with women or mixed company. This is just on the individual level though. Still, there are marked differences between men and women. Physical, mental and psychological factors that are keyed to the different genders. (Now don't start some feminist rant on this. I haven't stated better or worse, but those differences are there.) The question is whether the attributes offered to either gender become relevant on a God level.

The physical and reproductive qualities are obviously not relevant to God. The psychological factors might be, though. So this was something I then had to pursue. What relevant differences would there be in attributing an alternate gender to God?

First and foremost came the impressions I got from the commonly used term "father" for God and the difference in using the term "mother." This might influence my personal comfort level or impression, but was there something deeper? Something that would more generally influence? Barring the question of who actually gave birth, are there different roles here? There are.

Regardless of how much a man loves the child that he has sired, few will actually be maternal. They will be protective. Mothers are also protective of their children, but it is in a different way. I am not sure I could fully explain what the maternal reaction would be, but it is there. You can see it and feel it. Even in mothers of adopted children, so it isn't merely a knowledge that the child grew within you.

Of course this is only one amorphous issue, but one that gave me pause. This was the first clearer definition I had of what was missing. The church was not maternal. The love of a father for his child could be felt at points within the church, but not of a mother. The mother figure had been removed.

So this leads me to start considering and investigating my faith experience based on this. Had this lack been part of what had started me thinking about this? How serious of a point was this?

I sat back and reflected on one of the tenets of my Christian upbringing. He created them in his image. Male and female he created them. I realized that in this might be an insinuation. One that should be read anyway. If God created man and woman in his image, are there parts of them that can be found in each of them? Futher, as far as I am aware, all multi-celullar organisms have male and female entities. If God's power to otherwise effect things wasn't limited (a whole other question altogether) why would they have been created male and female? What purpose did genders serve in the master plan?

Time to back pedal for a moment. Why was the God of the Christian church assigned a male gender to begin with? In the desert, God said "I am." No gender there. In fact, there is no gender assignation until Jesus says, "Our father, who art in heaven...."

Is there a designation from Jesus here that God is in fact male? Probably not. One must consider the culture within which this message was being delivered. Would people accept the concept of God being female, even if it was true? Doubtful. Still, there is no clear designation here, nor any indication that God is required to have a gender.

So I can't define why God needs to have a gender at this point. How about any indication of what gender God might be based on our environment? Look at the creation to see a glimpse of the creator. This was a lot more enlightening.

Are there any particular benefits that one gender has over the other? Benefits that might hint at the gender of the deity creating them? One came to mind. The human female is the only creature on our planet with an organ that serves absolutely no purpose other than pleasure. (If any of you women reading this don't know what I am talking about, I am sorry for you. If any of you men don't know what I am talking about I am sorry for your women.)

Was this, then, definitive proof that God was in fact female? Hell no. But it is fun to point out. So searching further. Any other benefits males or females have over each other? Anything that would point to one gender or another? Anything men or women specifically do that the other gender can't?

Men can pee standing up, and write their names in the snow. Actually, I have known a couple of women who could accomplish the same, but that is a different story. Somehow I doubt this has any particular spiritual relevance. Women can give birth.

Now this one actually struck me. Such that I was forced to sit up and give this further thought. (I am being a poor narrator. I recall at the point that this occurred to me I was laying on the couch on my front porch, smoking a cigarette.)

Women could carry a child for nine months. Nurture it inside themselves as it grew, and then bring it forth into the world. If our existence had any significance at all, the continuation of our existence through our offspring would be equally important. So women were entrusted with the role of nurturing, bringing forth and raising offspring. This had to be important. It went back to the maternal thing.

Surely, then, if gender was important to a higher power, this would be a key indicator. This train of thought seemed to point to the possibility that so many Christians were wrong. That God wasn't the Father. She was our Mother.

And on the wind there was regret.

"And he was getting so close, too..."

16 Comments:

Blogger Hegemon said...

Why do your white wolf posts use the Old Testatament and Jesus' supposed words as source material? They seem irrelevant.

Plus I'd like to point out that the likelihood is there that whoever was translating into the vulgate may have been the one to make the distinction of father over some Hebrew word that means 'parent' or somesuch.

I'd also like to point out that fungi are both multicellular and agenderous.

I'd ALSO like to point out that almost every female I've ever met was drastically defective, so I kind of disagree with the concept of any kind of divine feminine, because I think femininity has been tolerated for quite long enough as it is without being worshipped besides. I think Lisa might be the only girl I've ever met without the exact same glaring defect endemic to the gender.

Plus you never called me today about V for Vendetta.

12:41 AM  
Blogger Wanderer said...

Okay, many important things to note.

First - the source material is based on the considerations being given to whence I came as I considered things then. Thus, it is sensible that I kept going back at that point and looking at what was being said.

I agree that the translation may have been at fault, but I am not familiar enough to say.

Good point on fungi, but it is still less than highly developed, which was my primary point.

I have to simply disagree on your claim that females are defective. Your statement is too broad (crude pun not intended) for me to address beyond this disagreement.

Finally, the baby was ill and thus I was busy dealing with her. Will have to take a raincheck on V for Vendetta.

7:53 PM  
Blogger Grey Owl said...

V for Vendetta was fantastic. best movie I've seen in about 6 months in theatre.

I tend to think of God not as male or female, and not as gender/neutral, but as gender/both. If man and woman are created in God's image, it seems that God's image must then be both. God split in two is man and woman. "God as father" language is more due to cultural reasons than anything else... God described himself as a "Father" and the Jews go, "Oh yeah, totally, he's a powerful, patriarchal father,"; if he had said he was a "mother" they would have been like, "Ok, so God stays in the tent and has babies? And gets beaten? I don't get it..."

2:13 PM  
Blogger Grey Owl said...

I meant old testament jews, and by no means was I implying that jews all beat their wives or something. Just realized that it could sound like that...

4:01 PM  
Blogger Hegemon said...

To narrow it, I refer to the needless duplicity, the sacrifice of things that are strong and worthwhile in order to intentionally create soap operas for themselves, including the intentional sabotage of relationships, both theirs and those of those people around them, the intentional sabotage of one's own life so that one can be the object of pity, the abject failure and refusal to look out for oneself so that one can play the martyr, or hope to do so even though every male surrounding realizes this female created the problem to begin with, and all othethings that fall under the umbrella of intentionally causing problems so that they can play soap opera at the expense of everyone, or in the hopes for pity or admiration as a sufferer.

I'm serious when I say Lisa is about the only female I've ever met who doesn't seem to exhibit those traits, but then again she is a highly respectable intellectual; perhaps that trait and the aforementioned are mutually exclusive.

It's similar to when you flop two pair, checkraise all in and get a caller who catches his flush on the river, and shows it, so you show yours to demonstrate that you got fucked. Women love to be in that position so passionately that they will muck winning hands to be in it. It's really quite an interesting paradox because it's in direct contrast to their other main motivation, which is to torpedo everyone's lives around them to create cliche melodrama. This second instinct is why no two women ever get along unless they're sexually attracted to each other; neither can stand to let the other one be the martyr OR for the other one to enjoy comparative success, and the conflict of those two lemmas fucks up their ability to relate.

As for maternal instinct... If there were any reasonable way to prove it, I'd bet my house, weapons, electronics and life savings that if pregnant women were never regarded as suffering or in a martyr-like fashion, nor was motherhood something to flaunt like a slackminded status symbol, birth rates would be one twentieth or less of what they are today.

The main exception to this classification is women with such a distaste for conflict or impurity that they desperately whitewash their lives and their world experience in hopes of maintaining a Disney-like existence where no one would ever swear, smoke, drink, gamble, fight, or fuck, or, if their denial were truly legendary in capacity, know what those things were. It is scary and sickening to watch these people's denial of conflict or vice, as not only does the view tend to suggest psychosis but also seems to imply that whatever portion of the psyche is developed that makes one an adult has never arrived and whatever portion makes one a child has never left, thus trapping the individual in a bubble of retarded immaturity (not to overuse comparisons to Disney).

All this said I realize that I find myself offended at the implication that a gender in which these three archetypes run wild is somehow superior enough to my own as to imply a deity must be female. You know me well enough to know what I meant by "offended" in that context, not in the limpwristed sense like when you call someone practicing religion learning disabled and they complain, but more like as in the opposite of the word "defended."

As a footnote, it occurs to me that I may have the same distaste for this concept for the same reasons as I hate it when Americans refer to boring, plotless, unaesthetic garbage from Europe as "films" in some superlative sense simply because it's from Europe, or fanboy Americans who will only watch cartoons from Japan and have a perception of every Asian as an honorbound scholar whose effeminate kicking is somehow the world's most effective combat system, or white girls who say they only date black men because "they're more real." People rejecting facets of their own identity, facets which are common to my identity, out of hand in favor of their wet-dream delusions of the alternative. I am a white American male atheist. I do not consider blacks to be "more real" than myself, Europeans to be more refined and cultured than myself, females to be more nurturing or relationally savvy than (males who don't hate kids, one of which I am not), or religious people to be more moral or respectabe than myself, and it annoys me when others do.

As a final note, I am not complaining about your perception. I am not asking you to change anything about it. I am not expressing hostility towards you or your beliefs.

8:55 AM  
Blogger Wanderer said...

I will start with the final note, as I feel that is the most important thing to address. I personally assumed that which your last paragraph states, but am honored that you took the time to put that in there to make sure that I was aware.

Given the greater text of your rant I must say that you have had the incredible misfortune of meeting entirely the wrong group of females if Lisa is the only one who hasn't fit the bill. Many women have instances where such things can be pointed to, but you take it to an excessive stereotype in my opinion.

The duplicity comment particularly amused me. How many of us guys have lied about our jobs, our ambitions, our taste in music and a hundred other things in the hopes of hooking up?

How about the stereotype of the guy who does everything his significant other asks, then plays it off with his buddies so they don't say that he is "whipped?" I think the duplicity thing in particular is far from gender specific.

I also would point out in regards to the question of females being the superior gender, that one of the reasons why I expected even more of a reaction to this one was based on the fact that a decent portion of what I had arrived at at this point had sort of gone off in the wrong direction. I am doing my best to include the errors with everything else in my story here.

You were there through a lot of this, and even if we didn't talk too much about it, you are undoubtedly aware that the story gets more screwed up before it straightens out. And you know that ultimately we are in disagreement on many points in this area, but as always, I appreciate your input.

10:17 PM  
Blogger Hegemon said...

You have no idea how glad I am to see my comment. I worked on it for like half an hour and then when I clicked Submit, I got the "Server could not be found" thing and then when I restarted IE ad logged in I didn't see it up and got really angry, but apparently it made it anyhow.

Tricking girls in order to gain our lap rockets unrestricted access to the bitch wrinkle is not something I consider needless as in the phrase "needless duplicity." I mean things like the "what's wrong? nothing" game, or for instance when Salad Bar was assuring me via AIM that our differences were totally resolved, and then about an hour later I went to IM and ask if she wated to go shoot pool later I get the end-of-someone-else's-IM clipping "ark for like an hour today, he still doesn't get it." and then she tries to tell me that she said her mechanic told her to park her car if it started making a certain noise and she had to PARK for an hour today.. yeah, ok.

As far as guys who do what you said to avoid looking whipped, you grew out of that and I never did it, but guys who do do that are just using the same behavior modulation that all humans do to function in a society. It'll still be unacceptable for a few years for me to scream "Retard!" at everyone I see wearing religious paraphernalia or jewellery, so I don't do it, even though that's who I am and that's what I think. Those guys know it's unacceptable for them to be so whipped even though they like to be and that's who they are, so they try to cover that up. It's not mean-spirited or needless, like when chicks say nice and friendly things to some newcomer chick and then as soon as she leaves tear her to shreds and giggle in triumph.

Basically, my contention is that girls act like middle-schoolers until their late 30s.

8:13 AM  
Blogger Arthur Brokop II said...

As one whose comments on another posting made it into this one (I think. It was kind of vague) I feel that I should say something. Plus, I am one of "The Christians" so I might add something, though I did make the "male and female" point in my reference to the image of God.
I am not going to argue His/Her gender (though as a fundamentalist Christian, I admit that the /Her part of this sentence was hard for me to write!), nor am I going to complain about Grey Owl's seeming anti-semetic slip. I didn't think that he was insinuating anything about Jews. Most cultures of that era, regardless of ethnicity or beliefs, regarded their females as little more than property. Not just Jews. In fact, many still do, though thankfully Jews no longer qualify!
I will point out an interesting story I heard once that goes back to the cultural question of why God chose "Father" in Judeo- Christian theology. I heard a story about a missionary trying to reach some group of natives (I'm not sure which group, or even what continent they're on) with the gospel and when he said that Jesus was the "Good Shepherd" the natives' response was "What's wrong with Him?" You see, this particular tribe assigned only the retarded, disabled, or otherwise handicapped people to work as shepherds. While many cultures would see the shepherd reference from the point of view of the sheep, these people only saw that the man the missionary was trying to tell them to follow was mentally retarded or only had one leg or something. Obviously, cultural prejudices would have to be taken into account when dealing with this group. Maybe God is completely without gender and only revealed Him/Herself as male in order to fit into a human culture's concept of what an authority figure would have been. Interesting point.
But, I must point out that God never fits Himself into our ways of thinking. Sure, He describes Himself in human terms so that we can understand Him, but He is clear on His nature and identity and never compromises that simply because we wouldn't accept the image. Go back to the burning bush. Moses, coming from a polytheistic culture (Egypt: for more info on that, watch Stargate) asks God what seems to be a valid question. "Which god are you?" God's response "I AM WHO I AM" is basically His way of saying, "I'm the God there is! I need no name because I am the only one up here. I AM!" He takes the polytheistic beliefs of most cultures of the time (including Moses's) and shatters them. Wouldn't that be the proper time to add, "Oh, and by the way, I'm a woman?"
Yes, Jesus was the first to call God "Father", but His maleness is evident in Jewish Scriptures in the first chapter of Genesis. Interesting that there is no pronoun used for God in the narration until Genesis 1:27, and that is also the verse in which He made man in His own image, Male and Female.
Just a thought.
God Bless, Arthur B Roberts

By the way, while I have met many woman who can be called defective, certainly not all of them are. I have met quite a few defective men in my day as well.
And, tell your wife she's not defective (thought I seem to recall her describing herself that way once...)

12:14 PM  
Blogger Wanderer said...

"And, tell your wife she's not defective (thought I seem to recall her describing herself that way once...) "

Probably by way of explanation as to why she was marrying me.

I do have to point out that your statement about the good time to proclaim Herself a woman (such pronoun solely because proclaiming himself a woman doesn't sound right) is flawed.

He shattered the existing polytheistic societal thoughts with that statement, or so you say. Still, if you take that argument, why push the female point? There were goddesses in Egypt, this wasn't a major revelation.

Of course, I have long figured that "I AM" didn't mean just that He/She was the only God, but that meant that He/She was the one answering the prayers under all of those other names.

As for Genesis descriptions, these are not free of the cultural prejudice, thus deficient in the argument if gender is relevant. But I am getting ahead of myself. Wait for the next installment.

MC - Duplicity for your own amusement and/or sexual satisfaction is not needless, but duplicity on their part for their satisfaction is? Sounds more prejudicial than logically connected.

2:00 PM  
Blogger Hegemon said...

It breaks down thusly. Girls bogart the clam and the only way to get any of it is to trick them into loosening their corner on the box market. If there were another free way to gain access to the bitch wrinkle I'd take it in a moment, but as filing the pork steeple in a gut locker or two is a necessity of life, you have to do what you have to do. Thus, steps taken to pressure-wash the quiver bone in the squish mitten are not needless.

However, girls could do anything to make their miserable lives less dull, they don't have to be such two-faced liars, schemers, and manipulateurs to no end other than screwing up everyone's lives.

2:20 PM  
Blogger Wanderer said...

Don't have to, but still, the choice is theirs. Particularly if you are correct that they "corner the market". I must say that you have quite the collection of crass metaphors under your belt there.

You seem to forget in your animosity towards what you see as a common nature that even if this duplicity runs amuck with them, there is another reason why it would not be as needless as you claim. They aren't one entity. Even if collectively they "corner the market" they are still in competition with each other as well. The bottom line is that you aren't likely to change the nature of women, you learn to play their games, you switch teams or spend all of your time in batting practice. It seems these are your only three options.

BTW - I wonder, after the last couple of posts if any of the women who visit here still read your comments. Or if they still visit here. :)

11:27 PM  
Blogger Arthur Brokop II said...

It seems I spend most of my time on these things explaining what I meant, especially to you. Not this time though. I know there were goddesses in Egypt. The concept of a goddess wouldn't have shocked Moses. But the concept of a goddess being the head honcho up there might have. Most godesses in ancient mythology, though powerful in their own rights, and often more clever (devious?) than their male counterparts, were subservient to the male god in charge, such as Zeus or Jupiter (yeah, I know, same guy, different name). YHWH not only shattered the polytheistic concept (according to the Bible- He later said "I AM the LORD your God, the LORD your God is ONE GOD") of the time, He spent the next forty years or so molding the Hebrew people into a completely new and distinct culture from those around them. He had ample time and opportunity to reveal His gender, if any, to them. Again, I'm taking this from a Christian perspective, but I take everything from that perspective.
GB ABR

10:44 AM  
Blogger Wanderer said...

Plenty of time in 40 years to explain that both genders existed in one God with their own elements? 2000 years later people still don't understand the trinity.

11:48 AM  
Blogger Arthur Brokop II said...

...thus proving that an infinite God cannot fit into our finite mindsets. HE/SHE/IT/THEM will always be too big for us to truly understand. You will notice that about 98.65743% of my arguments come straight from Scripture, which I consider in my personal belief system to be the ultimate authority on such matters, and many others who do not share my beliefs at least respect the Bible as an authority. That is because if I were to claim to totally understand everything about God myself, I would be a liar. But note this: We could literally argue for all of eternity about such matters and no matter what opinions we share, arguments we use, or conclusions we come to, nothing we do will change the Truth. That, what ever it may be, despite all of our nice big words we like to use, is beyond our realm of control.

I was done, but then it occured to me that some believe that our beliefs do change reality. To them I say that I believe that mine do not change a darn tooting thing about reality. If my beliefs were powerful enough to change reality and I believed that they weren't, would my belief that I could not change reality actually change reality? If your wife reads that last statement, ask her why she's laughing and saying "Have, have not."
GB ABR

1:55 PM  
Blogger Wanderer said...

"We could literally argue for all of eternity about such matters and no matter what opinions we share, arguments we use, or conclusions we come to, nothing we do will change the Truth."

I agree, the truth is what it is. That's ok, though. I won't hold you being wrong against you. ;)

4:51 PM  
Blogger Arthur Brokop II said...

...nor I you.

But, had you said that last statement on my blog, there would be about eight paragraphs following it!

3:02 PM  

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